New quest: Detail what landuse=orchard produces

[rugk]

What is possible is to ask users for the produce of farmland with perennial plants, a.k.a plantations: apples, pears, bananas, rubber, coconuts, cocoa, coffee, grapes etc. […]
This also requires a country-specific list of common produce types, like it is done for the sports quest because otherwise there are too many choices.

Sure, also trees are easy to answer. So we would have to let the user between trees and fruits first:

What is grown on this orchard?

• trees
• fruits
• (more menu:) "This is no orchard" and "Something else" (maybe "vineyard" 😃)

So according to the selection we would have to allow the user to select a type of tree and… seems there are only trees(?).
Or does OSM categorize bushes into the "trees" category too?

The UI could be similar to the one of the street paving.

Edit: We need images for these crops:

• Edit: tomatoe (later added)
• crop=pepper
• trees=banana_plants
• trees=orange_trees
• trees=lemon_trees|trees=lime_trees
• trees=guava_trees|trees=mango_trees
• trees=coconut_palms
• trees=apple_trees
• landuse=vineyard
• trees=pineapple_plants
• trees=pear_trees
• trees=plum_trees
• trees=coffee_plants
• trees=peach_trees
• trees=grapefruit_trees
• crop=strawberry
• trees=avocado_trees
• trees=apricot_trees
• trees=cherry_trees
• trees=papaya_trees
• trees=cacao_trees
• trees=walnut_trees
• trees=oil_palms
• trees=fig_trees
• trees=tea_plants
• trees=almond_trees
• trees=raspberry
• trees=palms
• trees=piper_plants
• trees=olive_trees
• trees=date_palms
• trees=rubber_trees
• trees=cashew_trees
• trees=hop_plants
• trees=hazel_plants
• trees=chestnut_trees
• trees=blueberry
• crop=sisal
• trees=kiwi_plants
• crop=nut
• trees=pistachio_trees
• trees=nutmeg_trees
• crop=jute
• trees=persimmon_trees
• crop=vanilla
• trees=cranberry
• trees=agave_plants
• trees=kola_trees
• trees=mate_plants
• trees=jojoba_plants

[westnordost]

Forget trees, bushes or fruits. The user (and we) don't care if apples grow on trees or bushes. If he sees apples, he will want to mark "apples" and be done with it.
The choices just must be ordered in an order that puts the most expected values (i.e. apples, pears etc for Germany) in front. That is why I mentioned the sports quest because that quest also applies a country-specific order (i.e. cricket goes first in GB). This order needs to be researched and I would say, a good old "world atlas" like we did have them in schools is a good starting point.

[rugk]

The user (and we) don't care if apples grow on trees or bushes.

Oh, this made my day. But you're right…

I am currently looking for statistics. For copyright reasons I do not want/cannot to share one here, so could you drop me a mail, so I can reply?

As for a worldwide overview you could take https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/28991/umfrage/erzeugung-von-obst-weltweit-nach-arten/ or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture#Crop_statistics.

[westnordost]

Sent

[rugk]

Ah, I think I finally found a good (and also reliable, for what's it worth) source. It seems you can also download the data as CSV.

--> http://www.fao.org/faostat/en/#rankings/commodities_by_country

One has to tweak it a bit here, it e.g. also includes other things, such as meat, but apart from that, these are some stats.

[rugk]

I've finished my parser, so here it is: https://github.com/rugk/crop-parser
The data is here: https://github.com/rugk/crop-parser/blob/master/result/mostPlantedCrops_2014.yml

Now I also know that in Faroe Islands mostly only potatoes 🥔 are produced… 😃

In the data, we often have many variants of the same "basic" product. E.g. beans in all colours… 😉

[rugk]

However, one can also see the amount of different fruits there is. (and these are only the top 5 per country) Getting a picture for each one could be difficult/cumbersome, so you likely need to start with a few placeholder pictures.

[westnordost]

Wow, cool. I anticipated you'd go through it by hand. Some notes:

• The final YML should use the OSM tags as defined in the wiki
• Only crops grown on an orchard ("mehrjährig") should be in there (didn't check if this is the case already)
• Seems to be incomplete. I.e. for Germany I am missing i.e. pears, grapes (for wine) as well. So, I would say that the final YML is not something that comes out of your parser but that uses the output of the parser only as a starting point. So, from that perspective, the parser's function was single-use and has now served its term - we got the data from FAO, now we build on top of that

[rugk]

Yeah, converting the crops to OSM tags is another thing, which should be added. However, now you at least have an overview.

Only crops grown on an orchard ("mehrjährig") should be in there (didn't check if this is the case already)

Yeah, there is a blacklist.

Seems to be incomplete.

Ups, yeah. There was a mistake in the parser (it sorted one time too much). This is fixed in rugk/crops-parser@73793ba.

I.e. for Germany I am missing i.e. pears, grapes (for wine) as well.

Grapes are now included. Pears are only in Belgium in the top-5. Seems we overestimate the production… 😄 (at least in tonnes) Taken from the raw data in Germany only 44972 tonnes pears, 155300 pears (dry) and 28917 pears (green) were produced (Note they are not summed up in the parser currently.) . That's less than cabbage ("and other brassica") with 802888t.
When we sum up the pears, we still only get 229189, which is still less than a third of the production of cabbage.

[westnordost]

Now it is probably too late to say that, but today it came to me that it may also be a good approach to simply note down the climate zone(s) for each country in an YML and then show the different crops based on these zones. Because I have the impression that what is being planted is more dependent on the climate zone instead of the country. Could this be?

Because, there are just too many crops that can be grown within a country. Even if they are not in the top X, they should still be displayed right? Mentioning all of the possible ones for each and every country is perhaps too much work (to maintain).
Perhaps the per-country YML could serve the quest to change the order of the items being displayed and the climate zone determines which crops are shown at all.

[rugk]

Could this be?

Hehe, yeah, maybe. But we would need new data for it. However, island and so on (MH or the example I already mentioned above: Faroe Islands) may be special examples…

Perhaps the per-country YML could serve the quest to change the order of the items being displayed the climate zone determines which crops are shown in the first place.

Hmm, maybe.

[rugk]

So I've looked a bit for statistics and it was quite hard as mostly the natural vegetation is considered, but here at the bottom we have some data, at least for Africa, although the climate zones are of course the similar in the world. (They should be, actually…)

However the data there is still quite vague and the list is often very small. So it is not the data you want to use to limit what should be shown to users.
Maybe we need a searchable text input here.

There are also so-called agro-ecological zones, but these have to be made for each region and maybe are even smaller (more detailed) than climate zones, so we won't get far here.

In any case I actually like the hard facts/data we have per country, so maybe sticking to them is the best idea. We can, of course, generate another list of the top-20 crops per country, so we have really every fruit produced there in the list. In a test run I did so and here is the result. We could of course also just include all available data by not limiting the list… (For Germany there are around 70 crops listed)

[westnordost]

Uiuiui, so much data... I think with more than 4 rows of icons in an image list, it really gets unübersichtlich. If there are so many different types of orchard crops, keep in mind that all of the possible ones need to be translated into every language and possibly (if it'll be a list with images) find pictures for it. So I guess, to limit the work, the quest should only start with the most popular crops and can be extended over time to include more. The app could ignore those crop types from the YML it does not have resources for.

…

On 2 July 2017 15:34:15 CEST, rugk ***@***.***> wrote: So I've looked a bit for statistics and it was quite hard as mostly the natural vegetation is considered, but [here at the bottom](http://www.fao.org/docrep/S2022E/s2022e06.htm#2.2%20major%20crop%20zones) we have some data, at least for Africa, although the climate zones are of course the similar in the world. (They should be, actually…) However the data there is still quite vague and the list is often very small. So it is not the data you want to use to limit what should be shown to users. Maybe we need a searchable text input here. There are also so-called [agro-ecological zones](http://www.fao.org/docrep/W2962E/w2962e-04.htm), but these have to be made for each region and maybe are even smaller (more detailed) than climate zones, so we won't get far here. In any case I actually like the hard facts/data we have per country, so maybe sticking to them is the best idea. We can, of course, generate another list of the top-20 crops per country, so we have really every fruit produced there in the list. In a test run I did so and [here is the result](https://gist.github.com/rugk/d43700234e6a3023c6a8384ea6644ec9). We could of course also just include all available data by not limiting the list… (For Germany there are around 70 crops listed) -- You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: #368 (comment)

-- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

[rugk]

Okay, another idea: OSM allows "cereal" as a crop tag? Maybe we could include this? I mean the user may not be able to choose, which cereal exactly and the cereal may change, but at least "cereal" would be something, would not it?

BTW: It's also interesting that strawberries are not in the data. Not at all… I however, know some fields here in Germany. Mostly you can pick them up by yourself (and pay, afterwards). Edit: They are in the data.